What to do about Amazon?

[fleggett]

Well, I purchased reMIND from Amazon after reading Parka's review and being antsy about its limited status (a print run of only 2,500). I have Amazon Prime, but I'm beginning to wonder if it's more a curse than a blessing.

The copy I received was just thrown into a plain Amazon box with three of those air-filled plastic balloon thingies. No other buffering material was used. And the box itself was far larger than the book. As a result, the book suffered minor damage to the corners of the front and back board materials. Not exactly enough to warrant a replacement copy, but enough to make me rather frustrated.

This is the fourth or fifth book that I've received from Amazon shipped in this manner. The previous books I've requested replacements. One book - the limited of Madman: Atomica! - I shipped back twice, and even then the last replacement had the typical Amazon piss-poor packaging job, which caused the same or similar damage as the previous two.

Something's gotta change. I know most of you primarily collect trades, but Amazon is also damaging limited editions, which cannot be easily replaced (if at all). The signed & numbered Madman book, for instance, was limited to only 200 copies, all of which have sold out of Amazon's allotment.

Is there anyone fairly high-up in the food chain we can talk to, over the phone, about this problem? I don't want to spill my guts to a first-tier respondent who has no control over all this, but to someone who can actually make positive changes to their shipping modus operandi.

[Nameless]

I've frequently done a lot of online shopping recently and with Amazon as well so I understand where you're coming from. Trying to actually get in contact with Amazon via telephone is actually rather difficult as I've tried NUMEROUS times. It doesn't seem like any of the international Amazon branches have numbers to call, but if you Google "Amazon customer service telephone" it should pop right up.

I've had to deal with big companies like Amazon and other shipping courier companies quite frequently at work a few years back so I know how frustrating it gets. Based on previous experience, it's really really doubtful you'll be able to speak with a higher up in management etc. Oftentimes even if you do get to speak with them or leave a voice mail, they will almost never reply. But there ARE things you can do that can really help the situation for yourself and also for others too. Hopefully these tips will help:

1: Go through their customer service/TOS policy before filing a complaint.
Its a pain in the butt, however it actually saves you a ton of time and headache because it gives you insight as to what complaints/problems you can file for(that they will actually accept) rather than complaining about something and having them tell you later "sorry, we can't do anything about that/its out of our control".

2. File a formal written complaint with photographic evidence.
Sounds dumb, but it helps a lot with your case as it assists with proving your point and it speeds up the investigation process. Whenever you get a package that you think was damaged due to poor packing take pictures of all the damages on both the product and the packing itself. The box, the packing wrap etc. and explain how the packing is insufficient. ie. tell them the corners weren't properly wrapped or protected by the bubble wrap.

3. Leave feedback. Every time.
This is different from leaving feedback about the item itself. Also send a customer report via email about it. Every time. And not just you, if you have friends or neighbors who have received items in poor conditions as well, encourage them to leave feedback to let them know they're making poor decisions. I'm pretty sure they order boxes in fixed sizes by the bulk because its cheaper, but that's not a good idea when people like us order books which are thinner or smaller and they don't even realize this. In most cases, a retailer would likely change or improve methods if a larger portion of their customers are collectively displeased than if there's just one or two guys on the fringes that sound like they're just on PMS.

4. Also file a complaint with the courier that handled the delivery and mention to the retailer that they damaged your stuff.
If a retailer deems that they did a good packing job, they'll probably reject your request for replacements or worse, ignore your complaint altogether even though its valid feedback which is why photos are great. Its always really good to mention to the retailer that the courier they chose did a poor job. Not all couriers operate the same; some handles packages more roughly than others(yeah I'm looking at you DHL) so pointing it out to them helps your case. And if you mention this rather than outright blaming them first they're more likely to offer you better customer service and improve packing, even if it's their own fault to begin if it wasn't well protected.

5. Be as polite as possible.
Its understandable when you're waiting for an item so a lot of people end up losing it when speaking to a rep. but that actually makes the situation worse. There seems to be the misconception that loud angry complaints = results. It's actually the opposite of that. You're far more likely to get what you want when you calmly tell someone about your problem and ask nicely for a solution. I've seen this happen with my own eyes whenever we got damaged items delivered by UPS. Coworkers of mine who called in raging always got nowhere. Reversely, everyone else who called in more politely got results. People don't give two craps about other people who are rude to them(even if that's what they get paid to deal with) and will probably toss your complaint into the trash. But if you're nice, they'll be more likely to try and help you out.

Oh, and if you get a customer service rep who's just a jerk to begin with: get the name, write down the time of the call and the number, hang up and call again till you get someone who isn't a jerk. Then write an email and file a complaint about the customer service jerk explaining how poor their performance was along with date and time of the call.

6. If all else fails, shop elsewhere.
I doubt this would really happen with Amazon since its usually on a case by case basis, but if it looks like there's never going to be a satisfactory resolution then best to just not shop there.

A lot of retail stores that operate shipments online have policies that state there are no replacements or refunds for limited edition/collectors items etc. because of the nature of shipping in itself. This tends to be the case with a lot of hobby stores that operate online. There's never the guarantee of mint condition, and any exchange requests due to damages are generally out of your own pocket. It just gets viewed as a waste of time and/or money by the business because the mentality is "so what if the box was damaged, the game inside is still good and playable right?" Frankly, they just don't care whether or not we're collectors.

In cases like this if you must have something mint, best thing to do is just shop elsewhere. Shop locally if you can, because then you'll be able to actually see the item and its condition before you buy. It definitely takes longer, is harder and you might not even be able to get it, but you do get peace of mind.



I hope that helps a little, though I'm sorry I don't know of any actual person you could contact that can help you out. I'd like to know myself as I've gotten some pretty banged up items before, although in general I've had relatively good experiences with Amazon, but then again I mostly shop from Amazon Canada & Japan. I have found recently that doing the stuff above(especially the photos thing) really helps a lot when you purchase using Paypal and even Ebay because of the buyer protection policies they have going on now. Hope it works out for you though!

[wingsdjy]

Funny you should make this post. I've run into the same thing with reMIND from amazon. My first (and hopefully last) replacement is coming today. I still haven't sent back the first damaged copy just in case the second one fairs worse.

I've used the packaging feedback form to complain about this, but haven't heard anything back. Hopefully they monitor it.

I much prefer the method they used a year ago or so, where they would shrink wrap the book to a piece of cardboard that fit snugly in a box. I never had a problem with that method (at least for hardcovers...never really order paperbacks). Maybe if you leave suggestions on how they can improve packaging, they'll actually consider your feedback.

[fleggett]

I agree that going through "official channels" is more effective than screaming at some poor first-tier support schmuck in India. I was just hoping for something more expedient. Nameless, thanks for your comprehensive and detailed post. I'd actually nominate it for a sticky. All your points are well taken and, believe me, the next time this happens, I'll be taking a LOT of pics.

I don't think complaining about the carrier is an option, though, given just how lackluster and negligent Amazon has become. The problem is that they just throw these books into an oversized container with only a few of those air balloons. This allows the book to jostle and shift violently inside said container, causing all sorts of damage. But you can't really pin this on the carrier, as I believe even if these shipments were handled with kid gloves, they'd still wind-up damaged. It really all comes down to Amazon.

wingsdjy, I remember the days when they would at least shrinkwrap the books against a backing piece of stiff cardboard. This was INFINITELY better than their current method. Please let me/us know if your replacement copy of reMIND is satisfactory.

In the meantime, I think I'm going to steer clear of Amazon-fulfilled purchases. I realize I'll be taking a huge discount hit, but condition trumps a cheap price for the sort of books I purchase (mostly limiteds).

[parka]

I always wonder why Amazon likes to use boxes for just a single book.

They also have those thin cardboard packages which are more appropriate. There's a strip behind to pull to open up the package. That's how Book Depository usually ships their books, sometimes via that thin cardboard and sometimes via padded envelope.

I see that some book titles, Batman Hush Unwrapped and Valkyria Chronicles, are showing this message now:

"While this item is available from other marketplace sellers on this page, it is not currently offered by Amazon.com because customers have told us there may be something wrong with our inventory of the item, the way we are shipping it, or the way it's described here."

Maybe it's got something to do with the shipping also.

Amazon UK's packaging is extravagant. They will padding with with lots of crumpled paper, so much that there's no chance of the books moving inside.

Amazon Japan's packaging is the best. Books wrapped with a piece of cardboard and pasted to the bottom of the box.

There's not much that can be done other than sending feedback through their 'Leave Packaging Feedback' link.

[fleggett]

The thing that REALLY chaffs me about all this, apart from it being correctable, is that Amazon is selling some VERY expensive, limited books. I'm talking $1000+. If they're packaging them the same way they packaged reMIND, that's absolutely criminal and, I'd think, suit-worthy, either on behalf of the customer or the originating company whose products are being irrevocably damaged due to Amazon's mind-blowing, lackadaisical shipping methods.

Something's gotta change. Amazon HAS to radically improve their shipping M.O. if they're to continue selling ultra-expensive limiteds or other books of a scarce nature. For that matter, their feet should be held to the fire over trades, as well.

I'm embarrassed to admit I'm not familiar with The Book Depository. Are they a good alternative to Amazon? Do they offer heavy discounts? And do they sell limiteds?

[wingsdjy]

@fleggert
I received the second reMIND yesterday. While the corners are acceptable this time, the spine has some weird damge on it (scrape-like identations). It's either a binding error or a handling error. I don't see how these marks could have occurred in shipping. At this point, I'll just keep the nicer of the two copies (haven't decided which one that is).

With regards to Book Depository, I believe their packaging is decent but not perfect. Most of my books from there are mint, but I did receive a damaged Art of District 9 a while back. On the plus side, they let me keep it for free since they were out of stock at the time. To be honest, I can't recall exactly how they were packaged.

The absolute best packaging I've seen in the US was (is?) borders.com. They use the thin oversized cardboard pouches (like what Parka described), which haven't failed me yet. The website is still operational (for now), but gone are the days of 25, 33, and 40% off anything coupons.

[Krystal109]

I get books from Barnes & Noble and Amazon all the time and the worst part is always the corners of the books being slightly bent. In all honestly there just doesn't seem to be anyway to get a book in prestine condition. The shipping is always in cardboard boxes with little to no buffer to make sure it doesn't move. I think they need to wrap it in thin cardboard thats designed for them (kinda like DVD's now have slipcovers) and then ship it in that with it glued or taped down like Parka said.

[fleggett]

Well, I bought the Gamera Heisei Trilogy Blu-ray and was shocked to find that they actually shrinkwrapped it against a stiff piece of backing cardboard. If they would at least do that with books, a lot of this in-transit damage could be avoided. I'm going to risk purchasing another book from them to see how it gets shipped (probably The Alien Vault since it's pretty cheap and isn't limited).